vBulletin 4.0 is going to cost even more? (vBulletin Leaked)

**accyroy** · 06-12-2009, 11:29 AM

This is a bad day.

**accyroy** · 06-12-2009, 11:40 AM

Please forgive me if there is another thread here about this, I haven't found it!

We are all vb users, and we all care about the product that we use every day, however things are obviously changing.

It seems to me that IB are getting rid of all european staff, because maybe they want to make vb an entirely american product. I may be wrong on this, but with all the staff changes recently, this is what it looks like.

So that's fine, it is their product, but why dont they talk to us and give us reasons? Some of us make a living from our vbulletin based boards and we are currently getting worried about our position. It seems we cannot be heard! We never used to worry because in general Jelsoft listened, especially behind the scenes.

My confidence is fading, is IPB a good alternative? Surely not! But what else is? Please help!

**nexia** · 06-12-2009, 12:16 PM

they did not rip them out, the guys left on their own... "amically" as Ray said... amically means they had enough of all the changes, they were not happy.

IPB is not a good alternative... keep running with vB... do not base your evaluations on reaction of the behind-the-scene...

**accyroy** · 06-12-2009, 12:25 PM

I know the people supposedly left "amically", but don't you think it's strange so many leave at around the same time?
I am going to still keep running with vB, but I do need to look at alternatives right now as my confidence in my main product has fallen. I would advise you do the same! It is better to have a backup plan if all goes pair shaped than none at all!

**Brandon Sheley** · 06-12-2009, 12:28 PM

I think it's strange that so many left at the same time, but that is their choice. I'm sticking with vBulletin, I've worked way to hard on vBSetup to change over to another script.
I wouldn't think IB would make a bunch of changes if they thought it would drive vB owners to another script, so I'll just sit back and wait to see how things pan out and hope for the best

**accyroy** · 06-12-2009, 12:34 PM

Thats a great way to be, and mainly that is also how I am. I am completely happy with what I have right now and totally happy with the support I have been provided up till now. All I am doing, is as any company should do, is making a contingency plan and looking at what else is out there. I am worried at certain decisions that have been made and my confidence has fallen.
I actually think the market is now ripe for external vbulletin support boards such as this one, to make a killing. It is places like this which will probably seal my final decision to stick with VB, even though I maybe cannot rely on the original producers of the vb script.. And I don't like saying that really

.

**Nick R** · 06-12-2009, 05:54 PM

I find it interesting that somebody mentioned the fact that all the employees that have left are the non-American-based ones. I hate to contribute to the speculation, but just because they *tell* us they left by choice, doesn't mean they actually *did*.

We have all realized that IB is a highly-commercialized business, and ultimately, everything comes down to money, money, money with them. How do we know they didn't pay these employees to keep their mouths shut?
Why would they do this? Because wouldn't we all be concerned if we found out that IB did lay these employees off?

... Just some food for thought. I'm open for direct opposition on this matter.

**ohiosweetheart** · 06-12-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick R

How do we know they didn't pay these employees to keep their mouths shut?
Why would they do this? Because wouldn't we all be concerned if we found out that IB did lay these employees off?

... Just some food for thought. I'm open for direct opposition on this matter.

ugh something more for the gossipmongers to feed on.

I know for a fact that this is not true for at least one jelsoft employee who left.
That's all that I can say as he took me into his confidence.

**Nick R** · 06-12-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiosweetheart

ugh something more for the gossipmongers to feed on.

I know for a fact that this is not true for at least one jelsoft employee who left.
That's all that I can say as he took me into his confidence.

It is just one more thing, you're right. But it came to mind so I figured I'd share it.

When being paid to stay quiet about something though, being taken into confidence still wouldn't be believable.

**ohiosweetheart** · 06-12-2009, 07:17 PM

I highly doubt that there's any conspiracy going on, and paying off people to be quiet.
This is just something else to keep the loose lips yapping.

I'm disappointed.

**nexia** · 06-12-2009, 07:32 PM

actually, the reasons they left are the same reasons why i left vb.org .. (i mean other than being banned by Paul...)... i was not paid to shut off, but i can say also that these guys signed a NDA when IB bought the company... from day one of IB, the internal and external communications changed from friendly to commercial.

and it's not "non-american based", Jelsoft was 95% British before IB buy them... 90% of the Jelsoft company was dropped in the last months, including everybody from the original staff but one. It was in the papers when IB bought the company, so they decided to leave without making trouble, or their agreement would've been trashed and their cash burned out.

btw, this discussion have no real mean here, speculations when facts are missing is not good.

**Kier** · 06-13-2009, 01:15 AM

I feel compelled to respond at this point, because there is some stuff being posted here that has no basis in fact whatsoever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by accyroy

It seems to me that IB are getting rid of all european staff...

...that's fine, it is their product, but why dont they talk to us and give us reasons?

Internet Brands can't give you their reasons, because the decision was not theirs. It would be down to each individual outgoing staff member to provide reasoning for their departure, if they choose to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by accyroy

I know the people supposedly left "amically", but don't you think it's strange so many leave at around the same time?

This is purely coincidental, as various staff have notice periods of different lengths in their contracts. The resignations did not occur simultaneously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick R

How do we know they didn't pay these employees to keep their mouths shut?
Why would they do this? Because wouldn't we all be concerned if we found out that IB did lay these employees off?

When faced with speculation like this, posting a rebuttal becomes somewhat pointless, because the response will always come back 'you could have been paid to say that', so I will just state for the record that nobody has been paid for their silence, or to maintain a particular message. I doubt anyone would have accepted such a payment, even if one had been offered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexia

90% of the Jelsoft company was dropped in the last months, including everybody from the original staff but one. It was in the papers when IB bought the company, so they decided to leave without making trouble, or their agreement would've been trashed and their cash burned out.

What utter rubbish. I'm not even going to dignify this drivel with a correction.

I will simply re-state the facts. I am leaving Jelsoft because I chose to do so.

**wizzard** · 06-13-2009, 03:30 AM

Thanks for posting Kier.

Some people cannot live their lives without having the urge to make up stuff in the absence of facts.

I think a few of them are budding journalists, some journalists like to do such things as well.

**nexia** · 06-13-2009, 04:48 AM

ok, so Kier feel the need to come here and register today just to correct everybody's thoughts... yeah yeah... how pointless...

you were unable to communicate anything useful on vb.com in the last years and now you popup on each site that talk about vBulletin/Jelsoft and you bash on negative comments?...

how strange that all the original staff of Jelsoft "chose" to do the same thing at the same moment, when all that team decided a long time ago to be tight and work together for a long time... how basic to tell us that it's none of our business if all of you decided to leave at the same time...

you take us for babies or what?... you seriously think we'll eat this like a birthday cake?

next time, instead of correcting these suspiscions, just leave, please do not spend the server usage of any site just to say nothing... thanks.

the only thing i see when all the staff of a project leave in the same period after a company buy the project is that the staff is not interested to work on that project anymore... that's the only reason possible. don't tell us that one was pregnant and the other had his mother sick at the hospital, life facts are not all coming at the same time, and not everybody feel the choice to leave at the same time when everything is going fine.

and btw, nobody was pointing the Jelsoft staff actually... read properly and you will see that everybody is questionning IB's actions and methods. you left for the same reasons i asked to be removed on vb.org ... personal interests were not there anymore. or your mother is sick at the hospital, i don't care actually.

and nobody here is posting drivels... gossips are built with silence... you said nothing, people make fun posting strange suspiscions just to fill the air. none of the Jelsoft staff left with an announcement, they all vanished in the same period... before IB, each Staff move was announced and explained so people feel confident of friendship... now,boom, just in a period of what 6 month, there is nobody home...

it's like if i go visit an old friend i knew, i knock on the door, and the old friend is here, but all his family is replaced with someone else... even his wife and 4 kids ... sure i did not receive any note, because the last time i heard from him, 2 years ago, everything was fine, and he said "come here when you want, you are welcome anytime"... so i took the words. now i arrive there, i thought seeing his gorgeous wife and 3 kids... now, what i see is something between a bear and a camel, with 4 martians.... they continue to hold the house, but i do not feel comfy with that anymore.

**ohiosweetheart** · 06-13-2009, 05:20 AM

nexia, you are so silly. The man came on here to set the facts straight, because you people want to do nothing but make up crap to keep the gossip going, and you still want to be a bully and spread idiotic bull****.

Quote:

next time, instead of correcting these suspiscions, just leave,

Of course you don't want the suspicions corrected. You have no interest in the truth, because then you'd have nothing to talk about. You're one of the worst on the gossip mill. And who are you to tell someone to just leave? Is this your site? No.

I'm finished with this site, til this kind of crap is put to rest. It's totally unprofessional and making this site look bad.

**nexia** · 06-13-2009, 05:26 AM

there is no crap here, if you stop thinking i'm just a moron... i'm not in the gossips, i never started any... you like to think i am, because i'm saying things that not everyone is reading properly, but who are you to say we're posting crap and are unprofessional?!... you're the one posting bad words now... tsss

correcting suspiscions by saying nothing but insults is not better than not posting a thing. Kier never posted here, he never cared... now that we talk about them, he register to say some lines with the words "compelled", "drivel", "coincidental" .... do you think that's helpful in the discussion?... do you think that is what people wanted to hear?

oh, and btw, i do not post idiotic bullsh*t. read my stuff properly instead of saying "oh, nexy posted something, it must be moron again"...

oh, and if i read this thread properly, your first words about the situation were "insane"... you did not like the situation either... does it make me a complete different person just because i do not say hard words?

leaving this site because it is unprofessional?

who said it was? ... i prefer having this site more personal, less professional, having intimate discussions with people who care about your situation instead of a place where the only goal for the admins is to make their seat comfy and their rank more important than your participation. vbSetup is actually 10 times more appealing for vBulletin users than vb.org because instead of pushing the discussions toward bans and restrictions, it is about information, sharing and participation.

i never read anywhere here about "Brandon is the admin, please applause his words"... the day i read this, i will leave... but not because people can argue... this is part of life -- or if you never argue in real life, you may have a boring life after all...

**ohiosweetheart** · 06-13-2009, 05:31 AM

WHY would you want someone to post what you want to hear rather than the truth??

Kier gave you the truth, but you'd rather attack him now, and carry on with rumors and lies. Go for it. I'm done.

**nexia** · 06-13-2009, 05:46 AM

that's so funny that you say you're done but still continue to read and comment... you're just attacking me, but you have nothing to say... i'm into gossips?!... my first post in this thread was on POST #205... and it was stupid comment about noppid, not even about the topic itself... do you seriously feel i'm into gossips?!... you posted what 30, 40 posts in this thread without having any idea of the situation, and you talk about me being into gossips?

actually, if Kier come here and say "you are all wrong, IB never had anything in their paper about how the project had to headup"... there i would be wrong in my evaluations...

but he just say to all to shup up... you tell me i do not want to hear the truth... but what truth?... he said "he chose to leave"... ooohh what a truth... does it worth consideration... you have kids, if one of your sons put the fire in his school, will you be calmed if his only words are "i chose to do so"... come on.

i did not attack Kier, but it's not the first time i see someone register on a site, just to make the kind of statement he did... we call this trolls... if he did not want to give his reasons, why did he post at the first time? everybody in this thread are making assumptions... if you do not want to give the real reasons, just let people with their assumptions, anyway the reputation of Kier like the others was never in stake.

btw, where in this thread someone was pointing at Kier ??... nobody!

**Nick R** · 06-13-2009, 07:30 AM

It's a shame that some of you think I have nothing better to do than stirrup some drama here. Too bad you're sadly mistaken.

Do you see me all over the vB 4 thread here? No. Do you see me talking about this on my own forum? No. Do you see me even *wasting* my time reading the hundreds of posts that are made in the "Licensed Customers Feedback" forum on vB.com? Nope.

The truth is that vB is going down *as we know it* so I've decided to stop spending my time getting into the gossip. Arguing, speculating and guessing really isn't going to make a single difference in the outcome of the whole thing because IB is going to do what IB wants to do regardless of what the customers say.

I'm not going to immaturely promulgate my departure because I have no desire to participate though. Just leave and forget it - there's no need to make a dramatic exit.

And just because somebody says something or they "give you their word", doesn't make it true. However, nowhere in my post did I say that I believed that being paid to keep quiet was the case. I'm not going around touting that I've found the solution. I'm not making any accusations. It was simply something that came to mind and I found to be interesting. If you don't like the idea of collaboration and open mindedness, I'm afraid it's going to be hard to progress on a variety of things. I don't understand how close-minded people get around on forums anyways. Forums are meant to be for open discussion... not, "I don't believe it one bit so I'm leaving until you STOP!"

**nexia** · 06-13-2009, 07:57 AM

hum, yeap Nick!

**faith** · 06-13-2009, 08:02 AM

I am curious about the leasing aspect of it. Will current leased get a discount etc. Probably something to make it fair?

**Brandon Sheley** · 06-13-2009, 08:06 AM

vBulletin 4.0 Dev Update
I am happy to report that we're down to a short list of items remaining before we can officially begin alpha testing vBulletin 4.0, which I expect to start within a few weeks. Alpha testing will occur in phases, with the Forum released first, then followed shortly thereafter by the full Suite.

The alpha release is the earliest point at which vBulletin is installable, and its purpose is to identify issues on a wide variety of environments as early as possible. To that end, alpha testers are those with a long history using vBulletin and who have experience integrating plugins, styles, right-to-left text rendering, and other factors that are likely to reveal bugs.

Additionally, throughout both the alpha and beta releases, we are using a dedicated internal QA team, as well as external QA resources, to help us find and fix bugs as early in the process as possible.

As we get closer to gold release, we'll announce the official details of licensing, pricing and discounts.

Stay tuned!

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=310465

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kier

I feel compelled to respond at this point, because there is some stuff being posted here that has no basis in fact whatsoever.

Internet Brands can't give you their reasons, because the decision was not theirs. It would be down to each individual outgoing staff member to provide reasoning for their departure, if they choose to do so.

This is purely coincidental, as various staff have notice periods of different lengths in their contracts. The resignations did not occur simultaneously.

When faced with speculation like this, posting a rebuttal becomes somewhat pointless, because the response will always come back 'you could have been paid to say that', so I will just state for the record that nobody has been paid for their silence, or to maintain a particular message. I doubt anyone would have accepted such a payment, even if one had been offered.

What utter rubbish. I'm not even going to dignify this drivel with a correction.

I will simply re-state the facts. I am leaving Jelsoft because I chose to do so.

Thanks Kier for clearing things up.

**nexia** · 06-13-2009, 08:12 AM

strangely, they announce they will have alpha stage, but why? they had hard time announcing any real content upgrade, and now that they stated there would be no beta stage, they announce us they are alpha-ing it... they just forgot one step here... we want the script, we don't care about what is kept secret...

...

i want it, i want it...

**ohiosweetheart** · 06-13-2009, 02:57 PM

They never stated there would be no beta stage nex, they stated there would be no public beta stage.

**nexia** · 06-13-2009, 04:12 PM

that's what i meant, and you know it... you understand me more than you show... tsss

**Brandon Sheley** · 06-13-2009, 08:10 PM

I think it's a bit BS that there is no public beta stages like in the past
for the very reason, I wont touch the download for a week after 4.0 is updated

btw guys, ,pls pls play nice, I've been insanely busy but I see a new post time to time and several cheap shots

Just be respectful of others, and we'll leave this thread open

thx

**darren** · 06-14-2009, 03:36 AM

I must say as a new guy to vBulletin (9ish months) the way lots of the original team that built vBulletin leaving is worrying me.

I started my forum on phpbb as it was free and wanted to know if it would be a success before moving to a commercial based forum software. There was only one real choice and that was vBulletin.

I wasn't too bothered about the vb4.0 price hike, I mean sure nobody likes it but hey if you have to, you have to. But all this talk of the main guys behind the project leaving is very worrying.

It just seems logical to me that how can a bunch of 'new' guys come in and continue the development of vBulletin like nothing has happened. Surely programmers all have their way of doing it and if the main developers have left or leaving and you get new guys in to finish/complete/fix a product that is a recipe for disaster at least for the immediate future.

I'm wondering as my site is only just a year old whether or not to confuse users a little bit more by changing forum software again or sticking it out with vBulletin and hoping it all turns out to be fine.

It's my opinion but IB are out of the depth here as they even purchased a forum that I use frequently and within a year or so it has gone down hill incredibly.

TBH it's leaving a very bad taste in my mouth and I'm at a loss to which direction to go in at the moment.

**nexia** · 06-14-2009, 07:07 AM

technically, your actual situation is safe... vBulletin 3.8.x is safe as possible, and it is not going down... the position of IB is not a problem either... because IB know where they want to go, and that's good...

the only negative trend here is how Jelsoft was cleaned out of all the staff... the original staff.

there is no lie behind the situation, it's just bad to see the non-communication in it. the Jelsoft guys had two or three possibilities:
1- continue
2- leave
3- sit between two chairs

see how it goes in the USA with Chrysler, Ford and other car companies... they are restructuring their industries... they keep some parts, they sell the others, or simply close. The parts they sell will be restructured to fit into a new company... like Chrisler which is sold in parts to FIAT... Fiat will restructure the company to fit their own way to work, and if the workers are not happy with this, they will be invited to leave. some will, because they can do something else, but a lot will not leave right away because they need a job. but at the end, like in 2 or 3 years, a large amoung of the Chrisler guys will leave because Fiat is not Chrisler, and because of a lot of reasons, usually personal.

Chrisler and Jelsoft are not different. they build something, they support it and are proud of their product... ask Kier, Wayne, Freddy, James, Scott and the others... 'til today, they were so proud of vBulletin, they were eating vB, they were talking vB... all the time... it's their baby.

If IB is changing path in the project, it's because they need to. I don't think they ever planned to kick all the original Jelsoft staff from the place, it's all personal to each others in how they deal with the changes... some like it, some don't, and some have something else in mind at the begining. Remember that these guys work on this project for 7 to 9 years... sometimes it takes only one move to make things change.

IB's plans?!... make vBulletin more commercial, expandable and more complex for coders and developers to add features and integrate to something else?!... or why would they invest that amount of $ in it if they had no goal for it... they did not buy the company just to support it, they just had to purchase more licenses to do so. And from the begining, they had plans on paper for Jelsoft, they made a proposal to the owners that they accepted or the deal wouldn't be. investing 500$ is nothing, you can do it anytime... but investing millions is different, you have to make sure everything you have on paper is executed or your plans fail... even if vBulletin goes well, if it is not the direction you had on paper, your goals are not reached.

The Jelsoft staff leaving the project is not something wrong, it's not going to break the vBulletin project itself... what is making problems is the strange communications between all of the involved parties. Jelsoft is running on British blood, IB is more American way of thinking, and all the clients of vBulletin are internationals... people understand, people don't, but somewhere, a limit have to be raised so people are not leaving for the wrong reasons...

I'm not personally leaving vBulletin... the only thing i did was to stop planning my work based on vb 4.0, because i do not plan to work with it until is it complete and final... like 2010...

i'm here to support the clients that will still continue to use vB 3.8.x because i think that will be the version that will still be the mainstream for the next 6 to 12 months to come...

why? because vb 4.0 will be for the ones with sites that are not customized, that are not skinned and that are new on the market... a lot of people will not upgrade because the 4.0 is a complete different engine... it's like converting your forum from vBulletin to IPB or phpBB... all your members would see the change, it's a complete different thing.

It's not negative, it's like for the cars... 4 wheels, a windshield, a radio and air conditioner... the difference between a 2006 car and a 2010 car... the new one is electric... no noise, no pollution, no gaz...it's the same car, so to speak, but the guys who like to drive a noisy car will be disapointed... at the end, in 3 or 4 years, everybody will have a electric car... and the company that build these for the better will continue to live.

IB is not different from the Car industry... the way they deal with vBulletin's development is correct, Jelsoft guys are correct by the way they stick to the project or leave... the problem is the rumours, the lack of communication and the facts that are not always right.

Some guys just said i was in the wrong path, " i have no interests in knowing the truth "... yeah... why?... because i may be one that is not involved in the development of the project and i know a lot more than they think?... i don't want to know the truth from guys who will not be there in 2 years, i want to see the path of the project... like everybody who own a vBulletin forum and have a life attached to it. i don't want to know how people feel, i want to know what will be the end of it so i can decide what i will have to do with the script... if these guys say that what's behind the wall is just darkness, ok... i'll hear it. but if they just say "i leave, that's all personal, i leave".. i don't want to know why, and i don't want them to come here just to shup all the rumours without any answers... it's not vBulletin, it's life...

anyway, i think this situation is done already, people know the facts, we just have to wait to see the look of vBulletin 4.0 before making any statement on the What and What Not!

**Brandon Sheley** · 06-15-2009, 04:35 PM

A tweet from Mr. Floris

RT @Floris spotted a new vBulletin developer signing-up Now shows up as a dev, so I guess that's official: vBulletin Community Forum

**kellie80** · 06-15-2009, 09:03 PM

I have to admit that i'm nervous about he price increases. I already paid for my lifetime license and also just paid $40 for the upgrades this year. I can't see myself paying more money just to upgrade to 4.0. Unless it is absolutely spectacular. Even then, I can't see shelling out $200 more dollars just to do so. I simply do not have the money.

Plus, the price increase will surely put me out of the running to buy more licenses. Just too expensive and from the sounds of it, they are getting rid of the leasing option.

What kills me, is that they are even considering a price increase in this economy. I'm not even talking about the new customers here... because the new ones won't be as affected as the ones who already bought a license or 30.

I hope that they handle price increases fairly for their existing customers. I guess that's all I can say.

I'm trying to be nice here... but sincerely, i'm a little upset about all of this. I'm even considering a switch to IPB.